At a Q&A session held during Yeshiva Darchei Torah’s annual dinner on Sunday evening, prominent Roshei Yeshiva addressed a sensitive and increasingly common question in the shidduch world: Should a girl share her picture for a shidduch?
The question was posed by Yisroel Besser and drew clear and unequivocal responses from three Roshei Yeshiva.
HaRav Shlomo Avigdor Altusky, Rosh Yeshiva Darchei Torah responded bluntly, stating simply, “Chas Veshalom.”
HaRav Yaakov Bender, Rosh Yeshivah Darchei Torah, echoed the same strong position, also responding, “Chas Veshalom.”
HaRav Elya Brudny, Rosh Yeshivah in Mirrer Yeshiva elaborated further, strongly discouraging the practice while offering guidance for those who insist. He said, “Giving it out is terrible. What I tell people who insist on seeing it, is to give it to a third party to show it to the boys parents to see it. Don’t send it (don’t give it to them).”
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25 Responses
Picture 📸 is worth 1000 words!!!!! This says it all.
we need a kol korey saying any bachur who asks for a picture will not get a shidduch. We need rabbanim to take control over misguided ways, this whole notion of seeing a picture is from the gass and umos haolam we see the chen of a girl in tznius
Every person has the fit for them. People have preferences. A picture will show what the person looks like and whether you are wasting each other’s time if there is no chance of being attracted to that person. You wouldn’t go drive an hour to look at a used car if you didn’t see a picture. Kal vchomer, Why would you want to spend hours in something you will be with for life without seeing a picture first?
Of course, girls should not be supplying pictures, and people should not ask. Today we have AI which can easily…..oh wait, didn’t we just have some gatherings in Lakewood on that topic….
Any boy (or his mother) who asks for a picture should first volunteer to send a picture of the boy before asking for a picture of the other side.
We need to allow boys to date early and the rabbis need to stop keeping boys till 23-24 in yeshiva
Will help boys control their tavos
And help girls in shidchuim
The excitement of a shiduch is “the first sight”. Seeing a pic b4 messes that up…
Pictures are also grossly inaccurate.
This doesn’t take away the fact that many bad dates cud be avoided if they saw a pic b4….
But not worth it.
I wud rather go on a bunch of wrong dates, and not mess up the good one…
This was already tried before. Why is that now everyone wants pictures? Because the old system was a horrific nightmare of wasted time, money, energy, emotion, and bad feelings! Finally, after years of desperation, most people, despite the rabbonim, got sick of it and realized there must be a different way.
This is not the cause of the shidduch crisis. The crisis, as many have pointed out, is simply the lack of opportunities for young men and women to meet and establish relationships naturally and organically. If such were the case many men and women would develop an attraction for another person beyond physical attraction. But they are not allowed to have normal relationships. It doesn’t help that young men and women are not allowed to develop their individuality and that young men and women in the frum world are by and large raised to be rather immature to dealing with life in general and matters of intimacy in particular. The rabbonim only have their usual, outdated, off the mark, and irrelevant responses.
I have a bigger problem with shadchanim asking (sometimes “requiring “) a picture. And that’s been going on, even amongst yeshivish shidduchim, for many years now
Yeridas hadoros!
@Waterdoc:
But the Torah has requirements that override those preferences. That was the point.
How about a ban on reference calls until after the third date?
A ban on parents communicating with shadchanim until the third date?
A cherem on singles who hyper-depend on their mothers to make all of their dating decisions?
Imposing Harchakos DR”T on people who do Jerry Nadler-style investigations with reference calls in order to dictate the shaychus of a coffee date?
Boom!
That will solve the shidduch crisis
@Waterdoc
1. How strongly are you attracted to cars?
2. How long does a used car last you?
The point many times in asking for a photo is not to show it to the boy, and not because the mother needs a model for her son. There’s a lot of time invested in looking into a shidduch from the boys side. Sometimes a simple picture can actually show a lot more than people think. It’s not just about looks.
Good luck.
The Chassidim do it this way: they go to a wedding where they know the girl will be and check out the girl. The father goes to the boy’s Yeshiva and speaks to his Rabbeim and checks him out there. Asking for pictures comes from laziness on the parents part in doing the necessary hishtadlus for shidduchim for their children and it gives them the wrong Hashkafah regarding dating and marriage – putting emphasis on the externals rather than the tochen.
A picture cannot capture the chain, the penimiyus, the neshomo. A one dimentional image cannot accurately portray a multi dimensional person. I know many bochrim who thought the physical appearance was not really for them after a first date, but something drew them to go for a second and third and ended up saying how beautiful she is. Vilna Gaon says Sheker and Hevel is chain and Yiofi- pure external appearances…. Isha yiras Hashem Hi Tishalal…. the yiras Shomayim will add luste and shine to the physical. A picture cannot portray Yiras Shomayim. How many matches are rejected based on external when if they would have met even for a “coffee date” he would have seen a different picture!!!!
Secondly- many times its the boys mother who rejects based on a picture. She claims to know what look will please her son. Really?? is she her son?? Looking with his eyes?? Is she using his neshomo to recognize his zivug?? ( or this is not the trophy she wants for herself as a shvigger???) Hashem puts a special attraction – often- when people see each other. One cannot see each other on paper.
This is fast becoming a new yeshivish meshugas. Q&As where questions are fired off to these rabbis and they are expected to respond instantly before the buzzer goes off. No different than Jeopardy.
Aside from the tznius aspect, a picture is false by definition; it cannot portray the girl’s personality. A girl can have an attractive personality even if her image in a photo is not perfect. She might get nixed from a picture, but if they dated, a boy might be attracted to her. In elementary school, I recall thinking how ludicrous it was that classmates gave a particular girl a high rating in the beauty realm. She was very popular, a leader type, but, objectively speaking, far from pretty. She’s the type of girl who a picture would not do justice.
Shadchan’s opinion:
Even though pics on a resume arent always accurate, you get a pretty good idea.
I think if Shadchanim wouldnt get pics, it would worsen the Shidduch crisis, bec Shadchanim would have to meet the singles in person. That is a f/t job and would dissuade many Shadchanim from being involved in Shidduchim.
Those who have true Bitachon, and feel that their Shidduch will come with no or less Hishtadlus, they can withhold pics. Their decision.
The ability to see who you are talking about makes a big difference in the discussion. If the boy wants to see what she looks like then that’s his prerogative. I went out with girls that the minute she got in the car I was ready to turn around the corner and drop her off. Absolutely not my type. If is used properly pictures are very helpful. Just don’t read into them more than they are, just a snapshot in time of what in represented in that occurrence.
3 Chosheve Rabbonim give a public Psak (besides the countless Rabbonim/Gedolim who have long decried the practice) and here we have idiots wasting their time on the internet giving their “Daas Turo” – THIS IS NOTHING LESS THAN BIZOYON TALMIDEI CHACHOMING AND CHILLUL HASHEM, WHICH IS PROTEST IN THE STRONGEST TERMS!
@Rosman “How about a ban on reference calls until after the third date?” ABSOLUTELY NOT – MEETING GIRLS WITHOUT SOLID REFERENCES AND AGREEMENTS BETWEEN PARENTS IS PRIZUS!
all the debates are senseless. there is clear halachos that guide when and where and that’s the end of the discussion.
To the colonelofTruth, ur not getting frum society to start allowing casual mixed meetups whether you think that method will work better or not. We’ve seen the modern communities do it and we’ve seen the scene of ncsy and what tends to happen, humans are not trusted to stick strong to religious principles when put in these super difficult tests. However there are some “shabbatons” and shabbos meals you could find that sort of gear to the religious but they end up being pretty much just modern orthodox
David the kanoii
Halacha requires the man to be mekadesh an isha on his own in front of two unrelated Eidim. Not the parents. Sure, singles ages 19-21 can use a little help but it is a toeva that singles over 25 will not go on a first date without their parents. Especially when parents and their kids are frequently at odds with each other when it comes to finding the right person
If you truly seek theological justification where this crucial element of our helige mesorah can be defined as pritzus,
then go convert to Islam!